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To any Christians

AxlisOld said:
There are 2 kinds of people. Those stupid enough to claim they have the answers, and those smart enough to know they don't.
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Isn't what you wrote (that saying above)
It's self not a answer ?
Burt Reynolds Turd Ferguson GIF
 
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Munich was another good one. Duel, Jaws, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and Raiders of the Lost Ark is peak Spielberg for me. That is his Beggars Banquet, Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, and Exile on Main Street run of movies.
 
Lacerda said:
wow, beyond awesome

I heard that voice too. and like you, my first thought was, i'm not worthy. why me? eventually I told Jesus, please stop talking to me, I can't take it. I'm just a low life. Since then, I dont hear the voice so clear, it's more a strong guidance I feel whenever I need it. that's fine to me. That clear voice was really "frightening" for lack of a better word.

so yeah, the feeling you got, I can totally relate to

that's a couple of years ago, and these days, I'm ok with it. Jesus is there every step I take. I've got a direct link with him, if I need guidance I just have to ask. A seemingly unsolvable problem, some scumbag at work or something, and if I ask help it's solved.

but, following the way of jesus is no walk in the park. your faith will be tested. having jesus by your side is no ticket to a sorrow-less life. you're expected to carry the cross that's reserved for you. you'll have to take the bad days, with the good days.

Church and priests are irrelevant.
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Sorry for late reply. I have been away for all of 2026 (and will probably disappear again at some point. That’s my cycle here. Post for a bit and then leave for months). Didn’t realize you @ed me.

I agree with almost everything you said and I’m really happy that Old Goat found Christ. That’s awesome. Who is Old Goat btw? I don’t recognize that username. I’m guessing he changed it.

But something from your post I disagree with is the part about priests and church being irrelevant. I used to hold this same stance. Had kind of an evangelical mindset. But I’ve realized that Christ established a Church - the body of believers around the world. The word in Greek is ekklesia and it means “called out ones” or “assembly”. I used to say I was “spiritual but not religious” because religion has sort of become a dirty word in modernity. But this was basically unheard of in historic Christianity. And there really isn’t a single line of Scripture I’m aware of to justify it. The Bible makes it clear over and over again, that Christianity is a community, a tradition, and an institution.

I am not a stickler for any particular denomination. I believe in what CK Lewis said about “mere Christianity”. (Edit; but there are groups that are so heretical that they remove themselves from the Faith. Like Mormons, Jehovas Witnesses, Gnostics, etc. Then you also have groups that while still Christian, are not ideal imo, and are in error, but not bad enough to not be considered Christian, because they still hold to core essential dogmatic truths. Like Evangelicals.) But I do think it’s important that people ideally partake in the historic traditional Nicene Church rooted in the apostles, to help nourish their ongoing sanctification. For many many reasons. Following the Bible on your own can get tricky. Because the Bible isn’t a set of instructions or a rule book. It’s a very complicated library of literature that needs to be understood within the context and tradition of the Church who wrote/preserved/canonized it.
 
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arnold layne 📡 📡 📡 said:
After watching Project Hail Mary and coincidentally seeing the Artemis II launch on tv yesterday, I started thinking about space.

I believe that if you took an atheist to the moon, they'd change perspective. I'm not saying they'd become followers of Christ, but I would bet money they'd really start believing in a deity. None of us will see from this point of view.

I really wish one of the astronauts wrote a book about this. It would have be interesting.
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Your observation reflects real life. One of the astronauts on that mission who was an atheist literally said that when he landed the first thing he did was request a military chaplain and he broke down in tears when he saw the cross on his neck. Idk if he is gonna convert (I think we all have had moments where our spirit is moved in one way or another but then we harden our hearts quick and move on) but at the very least he was deeply effected in that moment and the throne of the Logos (the cross) brought him to tears.

Makes perfect sense. The Bible says that “the heavens declare the glory of God”(in a biblical cosmology the sky and atmosphere are the first heaven, space and the cosmos are the second, and the third is the dwelling place of God beyond what we can imagine). In Western Christian tradition, nature itself is seen as the second book of revelation God gave us.
 
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AxlisOld said:
The Bible says lots of things, including talking about dudes hung like donkeys.
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Long books tend to say a lot of things. If youre talking about Ezekiel 23, its not literal. Its an allegory for the spiritual prostitution and adultery of Jerusalem with Egypt. Its talking about the disastrous political alliances Judah made with Egypt. Jerusalem is a prostitute in the allegory (along with her sister who represents Samaria).
 
if jesus wanted us to conform to a rulebook, he would have given it to us

the most important word he taught us, was love. love one another. thats the ecclesias he was referring to. we are all one.

all the rest is our interpretation. every religion, every church, every sect. its all dust in the wind.
 
Lacerda said:
if jesus wanted us to conform to a rulebook, he would have given it to us
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But He absolutely does want us to conform to the moral law. And the moral law was given to Moses and is written on the hearts of all mankind. It acts as a convicting force meant to declare us guilty of sin, and drive us to the foot of the cross.

the most important word he taught us, was love. love one another. thats the ecclesias he was referring to. we are all one.
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This is conflating two seperate concepts. The Ekklesia is the Church. The body of Christ. The global congregation of believers.

all the rest is our interpretation. every religion, every church, every sect. its all dust in the wind.
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This is New Age. We don't need to merely rely on our intepretation. We have a vast rich history, a living faith, saints, Church doctors, etc. We have pastoral guidance, discernment and the Holy Spirit. And we have the bride of Christ - the Church. And the promise that "the gates of hell will not prevail against it".

So on what basis do you even believe in Jesus in the first place? How do you know that he taught love? Presumably because you trust the Scriptures written, preserved and canonized by the Church, right? If so, I would then ask, why does your trust in the Church stop there?

He didn't just teach love and leave it at that. Love was the core of His message. To love your God with all your heart and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself. But He also gave us guidance and moral teaching for the practical application of that love in our daily lives. He taught us, and He taught His apostles, and He sent them His Spirit to teach them further, and He gave them binding apostolic authority, which has been passed down to this day. He didnt just tell us to make the rest up for ourselves by our own intepretation. The human heart is deceptive and beyond understanding.

The Bible says to not give up meeting together in person and to submit to religious leaders and follow the traditions passed down to you. It says to confess to each other, sing psalms together, carry each others burdens, read Scripture out loud in each others presence, pray for each other, confess Christ as Lord, eat the body and blood together, etc (and we do all of these things in the liturgy). It also establishes an ecclessial heirarchy of bishops, priests, deacons, etc. It presents the Church as the bride of Christ. Luke the Evangelist saw fit to write 2 books. The first was his Gospel giving a biography of the Christ. But the second book of his two-part work is the biography of the Church. Acts of the Apostles gives us the story of the birth of the Church at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended on the followers or Christ, and the events that followed, showing how the Church spread around the world through the Apostles and their ministry - as a visible institutional Church that remains to this day. Not a single person in Acts merely has a relationship with Jesus while ignoring the visible institutional Church. Just as Israel before her was a visible divine institution, the Church fulfills the promises to Israel and acts as a divine institution based on faith instead of blood. Where those who are born again of Christ become Abrahams seed by faith.

We see that the Church in Acts convenes the first council - the Council of Jerusalem, which clarifies doctrine and has binding authority on the congregation. We see her authoritatively intepreting and recontextualizing the Jewish understanding of the OT. We see that this Church has a hierarchal structure, where all are equal in inherent value to God - but not all are the same in their function. Paul uses the analogy of different body parts making the whole. The heirarchy is not about superiority or domination. But its a solemn spiritual burden undertaken by those who devote their life to God. And we show our love and humility before God by submitting (not a blind or irrational submission) to their authority. We entrust them with the holy sacraments, liturgical leadership, and pastoral guidance.

After Acts we have 22 Epistles (I count Revelation as an epistle because it is technically a letter to 7 churches, even if its an Apocalypse in its literary genre) written by important members of the church - to other church communities or church members, establishing theological truths, doctrines, pastoral guidances, etc. And liturgy. I mean thats why we have these letters today and the Gospels and Acts. They were copied by church communities around the world and read as Scripture liturgically alongside the Old Testament.

We have always disagreed and debated on matters of orthodoxy and tradition. But I definitely dont doubt your sincerity of faith. And I understand where youre coming from. I emphatically (and respectfully) disagree. I consider you a fellow brother in Christ. I just wanna see all my brothers at dinner with the family. Because the Church nourishes, guides, teaches, rebukes, corrects and humbles us. She is the bride of the Lamb.
 
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i didnt mean to say, we should leave the rest to our own interpretation. on the contrary. what i meant was, thats what people do. people like to add to the message of jesus. its in human nature to do so. but all of it is dust in the wind.

the food rules and sacrificial rules, im not convinced that has any moral merit. god despises all of that, im sure i read that in the bible. why would the creator of the universe be pleased with dead cows.

jesus his message is actually really simple. my approach is, to read the gospels, his message, and let it speak to the heart. let he who has eyes and ears, etc...

as if, when you die and stand before the throne of god, you would be evaluated on you curriculum with the right church. perdonally i see no sense in there. there is more merit in giving a beggar some money (because what you do for a beggar, yoy do for god himself), than following the right dogma. i cant count how many times jesus judged the scribes, who follow the law more than other people. its what got him on the cross in the first place.

but who am i. i could be all wrong
 
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